Interview -- Woody Woodmansey (David Bowie, Spiders From Mars)
"Ziggy played guitar
jamming good
with Weird and Gilly...
and the Spiders from Mars."
~ David Bowie ~
Woody Woodmansey was in Yorkshire when he received a call that would change his life forever. David Bowie needed a new drummer and wanted him to come to London and join his band. Guitarist Mick Ronson had already joined up with David and bassist Trevor Bolder was soon to follow. And the rest, as they say, is rock-n-roll history. From 1970 to 1973, Woody recorded four albums with Bowie. "The Man Who Sold The World," "Hunky Dory," “The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars," and "Aladdin Sane." Arguably, the best and most important period of music in Bowie's long-storied career. This was the glam-flam era. It was the pinnacle of rock-n-roll decadence and outrageous depravity. And fans loved every minute of it.
With the opening track, ushered in by Woody Woodmansey's steady and portent drum beats ...sounding like an ancient timepiece worn on a relentless Reaper's wrist...Bowie introduces us to his greatest album, “The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars." Needle drop to label, Ziggy Stardust and his now forever crowned 'Spiders From Mars'...Mick, Trevor, and Woody...bring to life David Bowie's flashy, risque vision. To say the album brought down walls and set roadblocks ablaze would be an understatement. Woody Woodmansey. Go get you some
Woody Woodmansey Interview -- April 2022
Woody Woodmansey
Casey Chambers: It's the 50th anniversary of "The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars" and I can't think of a better way for the album to start than with your drums walking us into the room. "Five Years" is a fantastic opening track. Your drumming is quite the scene-setter.
Woody Woodmansey: When we got in the studio, David (Bowie) said that he wanted drums to start the next song. I thought, 'Okay, that'll give me a chance to do some flashy bits. Bring the symbols in. A bit of double bass drum work.' (laughs) But then David started playing "Five Years" and it's all about the end of the world. The end of the world! I was like, 'Oh yeah, put that on my shoulders.' (laughs) I immediately knew I had to recheck what I was gonna do...'cause I was not feeling flashy bits after hearing that! So I started playing this beat and immediately David went, 'That's it! That's it! That's good. We're gonna open the album up with that.' I was like...'Wow! Okay.'
Casey Chambers: The drums are the first thing we hear when we drop the needle and the drums take the song out the very the same way. It's all very atmospheric.
Woody Woodmansey: Yeah, it was the idea of fading it out and then coming back in with the drum thing for "Soul Love." It was a nice smooth takeover into the next song. We didn't spend much time actually recording the tracks. David was quite...impatient. (laughs) If we got passed three takes of a song, then it was not good. It was usually the third take and a lot of the time... like "The Jean Genie"...it was the first take. I think "Starman" was a second take. "Life on Mars" was a second take. That all took a bit of getting used to 'cause we had been used to doing many takes and then using a bit from that one and that bit works on this one and then joining it all together. But we didn't work like that. It was like, 'wham bam, thank you, ma'am!' (laughs)
"Five Years" - David Bowie / Old Grey Whistle Test (!972)
Casey Chambers: The ol' 'in-out' as the Clockwork used to say. (laughs) And the song and album still sound fresh as ever. It's hard to believe it's been 50 years.
Woody Woodmansey: It's totally unbelievable. (laughs) And it's nice that it's still being played on radios in present time. We thought we had done a good album when we finished it. But I remember when we took the tapes into RCA, the record company said, 'No, we're not releasing it because you haven't got a single.' We hadn't really been thinking like that. And then later that weekend, David just brought us "Starman." He probably wrote it all in one day. We polished it and by the time the weekend was over, we had it. We all were like, 'Yeah, that'll do it.' (laughs)
Casey Chambers: Holy shinto, so "Starman" was the last song recorded for that album.
Woody Woodmansey: Yeah, it was. It wasn't gonna be part of the album originally, but I think David under pressure can always deliver. So it kinda worked in our favor really.
Casey Chambers: For sure. "Starman" was a top 10 hit. And you guys ended up doing "Top of the Pops" with that one.
Woody Woodmansey: That was amazing for us because in England when you set off as a musician, and I started at 14, you religiously watched "Top of the Pops." It didn't matter what was happening in life, y'know? There's a flood coming! Never mind, we're watching "Top of the Pops." (laughs) I once got called in to see my headmaster when I was at school. And he said, 'You're a moron, Woodmansey.' (laughs) 'What are you gonna do when you leave school?' I actually said, 'I'm gonna be on "Top of the Pops." I'm gonna be a pop star.' He went, 'Definitely a moron. Get out!' (laughs) But that was just me blurting out. I wasn't really thinking. And so it was amazing when we were asked to do the show. I think Status Quo was on the same night. We were all lined up in a corridor. They were on one side, we were on the other, only about three feet apart. We were dressed in all our fancy stuff and they all had denim on. And Francis Rossi said, 'God, you guys make us feel really old.' And both bands just cracked out laughing.
"Starman" - David Bowie / "Top of the Pops" (1972)
Casey Chambers: That's a cool share. I was gonna ask...I know David was a fan of Lou Reed's music. Did your paths ever cross?
Woody Woodmansey: Yeah, Lou joined up with us once, I think, at Queen Elizabeth Hall in London. David invited him to play and we ended up doing..."I'm Waiting For The Man" and "Sweet Jane" and quite a few tracks with him. So The Spiders were his backing band. We got to know Lou after David went to the States to promote "The Man Who Sold the World" album. He had bumped into Lou Reed and met Andy Warhol and Iggy Pop and kind of hung out in that crowd. And then he played us The Velvets and it was like, 'whoa, this is a new wave.' It really hit us like that. I think it was the ability to communicate that kind of decadence in their songs. There was this real message of decadence coming across. And it was...it was exciting. We all wanted to capture some of that...but we said we have to do it the English way. (laughs) That's what happened with songs like "Queen Bitch." We had that decadent feel about it.
Casey Chambers: And any decadence that showed its sweet head on "Hunky Dory"...let it all hang out on "Ziggy Stardust." Ziggy was David, of course. But had you any idea that The Spiders From Mars moniker was going to stick to you guys?
Woody Woodmansey: We were sitting in David's lounge and he was just working out things for the album and he said, 'Oh, I've got a title for the album..."The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars."' This was the first time I'd heard it. And I just said, 'Wow...that's a mouthful!' (laughs) He said, 'Yeah, but it's good though. It's good.' And we were in rehearsal somewhere. And I was so used to being the guy who put the names on the bass drum skin of whatever band I'd been in. When I was still at school. When I was semiprofessional. I always painted the name on and so I just thought,..okay, I've gotta do it. So I did.
When David came into rehearsal, I realized I hadn't asked him about putting it on the drums. And he just looked down and looked up at me and smiled and...we carried on. I thought, 'Okay, I've got the approval.' It wasn't an intentional thing. But when David took on the Ziggy persona, I guess we just took on the persona of The Spiders behind him.
Casey Chambers: "Moonage Daydream" is another favorite and that one turns into a bit of a space-rock jam.
Woody Woodmansey: Yeah, that was an amazing track to play, actually. David had a piano in his bedroom and had his 12-string in the lounge. And we were up these steps where our rooms were and he shouted 'Oh, Woody, I've finished one.' We went down and he was just sitting in the lounge and played "Moonage Daydream" for us and we just went, 'Whoa...' (laughs) And that was just on acoustic guitar. When we went into the studio, we tried not to have the rock and roll cliches. The drum cliches. The guitar cliches. Or anything. We approached it like that. And it sounded like a rock and roll track from the future. Like a track from 2050. Mick had this Echoplex that he played his guitar through and David just said, 'Go to town on it.' And when he let rip, we were all standing in the studio going, 'Oh my God!' Whether you wanted to or not, it took you somewhere. I'm not sure where I went, but I went somewhere. (laughs) And that track was amazing and fun to play in front of audiences. Fantastic! They loved it.
"Moonage Daydream" - David Bowie / "The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars" (1972)
Casey Chambers: Pop culture keeps bringing songs back over and over again. I remember watching Jack Black's..."School of Rock" and hearing that song jump out of the soundbar. Decades later and still the song makes everything better.
Woody Woodmansey: We thought at the time we had done something special...and hoped that maybe everybody else would think so too. I guess it really started to happen for us on "Hunky Dory" when we did "Life On Mars." That track really stood out, particularly. We loved it. Ken Scott said, 'Come in, I've just finished mixing it.' The four of us went into Trident Studios in London and he played it for us on impeccable speakers. Loud! And I looked at the other three. David, Mick, and Trevor (Bolder) and their mouths were open. I remember saying to Ken Scott, 'Is that us?' (laughs) It was as if we were thrown outside of the song and we were able to listen to it as someone else. It impinged that much.
Casey Chambers: So let's back up a little bit. How did you and David hook?
Woody Woodmansey: I was playing in a band called The Rats in the North of England in an area called Yorkshire. Mick Ronson was the guitarist. And I had just replaced their drummer. We'd all gone through the blues. We'd all been in blues bands. We'd done the top 10 things. We'd done Tamla-Motown. Then we stepped into progressive rock, which was kind of the 'in' thing at the time. This drummer I replaced was the first to leave our area and go down to London. In those days, even the Beatles had to leave Liverpool and go to London to make it. You couldn't really make it unless you got into the London scene. He went on to play with a band called Junior's Eyes who actually wrote "Sailing" for Rod Stewart. So it was quite a good band.
But anyway, David was trying to make the move from being a curly-haired folk guitarist into a rock-n-roller. And his guitarist wasn't working out. David's drummer said he knew this fantastic guitarist in Hull, which was where we lived, called Mick Ronson. He asked Mick to come down to London and he stepped right into doing a John Peel show two days later. It was a big radio show over here. A couple of months later, David phoned me and said, 'Mick says you're a fantastic drummer and that you'd really fit in with us. I want you to come down. I've got this place called Haddon Hall in Beckenham, outside London. You don't have to worry about food or rent and we're gonna do an album. I want you to come.'
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All I really knew about David at the time was that he was a folk musician. I'd seen a flyer for an open-air concert with this guy with curly hair on it that just said 'David Bowie.' When I spoke to Mick, he said, 'No, he's good. He's really good. He wants to do rock.' And I thought, 'Wow, okay, this is a pro move. This is a professional move for me.' So I went down to London and spent a few hours with David playing his earlier stuff and it was a little bit...drums light. (laughs) There just wasn't many heavy drums on his earlier stuff. So I was panicking a bit. But we were talking and found we had a similar musical track of what we liked. Which was some underground stuff in England. And I was surprised that he liked what I liked. There was a band called The Artwoods and some of those guys later became Deep Purple. And it was a really cool band. So, we hit it off. Then he picked up his 12-string and just started playing this song. He was only about five feet away and he didn't bat an eyelid. He looked straight at me and sang. And by the end of the song, I knew he was a great frontman.
Casey Chambers: What song did David play?
Woody Woodmansey: It was, "Wild Eyed Boy From Freecloud." I just went, 'Wow, that's good.' And then it all started. (laughs) It was quite a culture shock, really, because, in the '70s, London was its own scene. Things happened there and it took nine months or longer to reach the rest of the country. When I went to London, I was wearing jeans with colored patchwork on the knees, moccasins, and long hair down my back. And a t-shirt I'd probably had on for two weeks. (laughs) I'd done a gig in it and then stayed in it. (laughs) That was the rock and roll approach then. When I knocked on David's door, he'd gotten rid of the curly hair. It was now long. And he had on a rainbow t-shirt and bright red corduroy trousers with blue shoes and red stars that he'd obviously painted on top of each one and was wearing a silver belt. (laughs) So it was a big education for us to get on the same page and understand what he was talking about a lot of the time. (laughs)
Casey Chambers: I just recently found out you wrote a book. "Spider From Mars: My Life With Bowie." As Dana Carvey doing Johnny Carson might say..."I did not know that." Tell us a little about the book.
Woody Woodmansey: It wasn't really planned. I had been kind of trolling the internet and reading bits of these books. And every book I read, it was like...well that didn't happen. He didn't say that. We didn't do that. Most of the time, it was just the four of us, the engineer and the producer in the studio. How did anyone else know what we talked about? And it was starting to wind me up, to be honest. (laughs) I found out on the grapevine that David was never gonna do a biography. So I thought I would do one just to say how it all occurred. This is what it was like for us. I wanted it to be for the fans or somebody interested in the band from the beginning. What it actually felt like so they could have the journey too. I did it from that viewpoint.
Casey Chambers: I'll leave a link for fans to check it out. The song "Changes"...another fantastic opening track...this time from "Hunky Dory." Your drumming is very precise with a bit of jazz-dust and has a less-is-more approach. And it paints a picture. The 'rat-a-tat-a-tat'...after David sings "Time may change me..." is just killer. Not flashy, but that drum fill has to be there. I can't hear it any other way. Is your studio strategy pretty much the same with each album going in? Or is it a new experience each time?
Woody Woodmansey: Well, before doing "Hunky Dory," we had just been through "The Man Who Sold the World"...which was a very different recording set. David really didn't have any finished songs when we went into the studio for that album. At that time, Tony Visconti was on bass and was producing the album. Mick was on guitar, me on drums, and David on 12-string and vocals. So a day in the studio would be like David coming in...'Okay, I've got this little chord sequence, and then this bit goes with it, but I don't know where. And then this bit here. And then this bit at the end.' So for that album, we actually set up like a live band in the studio. We didn't go into drum booths and section everybody off. It was just like a live band.
We'd take the chords and mess about with sequences. And Tony was very good at going, 'Oh, that sounds amazing. Let's repeat that.' And then everybody would throw in ideas until we had a backing track and then David would come in and go, 'Okay, I've written the lyrics and I've got the melody.' And sometimes...like for the song, "The Supermen"...we asked him, 'What's this called?' And he said, 'The Cyclops.' So we got the track finished musically, and then he said, 'No, no, it's not called that, it's called "The Supermen." We're like, 'Right, Okay.' (laughs) "...Sold The World" was put together like that. It was the first time we'd been in a big studio. That first album. I had done drum fills that I didn't know would work or not. I had never heard myself, so I didn't really know what I sounded like. (laughs) It was interesting. And it was the same thing with Mick. He had only done a little bit of recording before. We were both going, 'Oh, I always thought that worked, but it doesn't.' (laughs) And then we'd quickly try something else.
"Changes" - David Bowie / "Hunky Dory" (1971)
With "Hunky Dory"...David brought finished songs. Completed songs with lyrics and melody. Then he and Mick generally sat and worked out the arrangements of the first chorus, middle eight, whatever. And "Changes" was one of those songs. Although the tracks were quite different from each other and that one, as you say, has a jazzy influence on it, we had to make them sound like they all belonged together. So when we got into the studio, we had to adopt a different viewpoint. It was all about playing for the song. It really was that. I could no longer just do a drum fill through a hook line of David's vocals, y'know what I mean? (laughs) I had to be aware. We all adopted the viewpoint of...'If what you want to play actually adds to the song, and adds to the message of the song, then do it. If it doesn't, leave it out.' And it really does make you think more streamlined and simple.
So when I'd do a drum fill, especially in a break, I wanted it to continue the flow of the song. Even when there's no guitars or bass or anything, it's gotta continue the same feel. The same feel that somebody who's been listening has already tapped into. And particularly with "Changes." A very simple beat was all it needed. And probably most drummers whoever called themselves drummers can play it. But it was a good way of working. If it's a good song, streamlined, and with a good groove that you've picked...then when you play it, it means something. No need to embellish the song with a lot of fluff. (laughs) Let it breathe and get the message across.
Casey Chambers: Before I let you go, would you mind sharing a couple of albums from other artists you've enjoyed?
Woody Woodmansey: I was a major Jimi Hendrix fan. "Are You Experienced?" I mean that album...I sat for months and it was the only album I played. I remember traveling, I think, 30 miles in the middle of summer on a bus that was scorching...(laughs)...just to buy the album on vinyl then. And I was just so proud of it. I don't think I let go of the cover for weeks. (laughs). Also, "In the Court Of The Crimson King." I love that album. There's a track called, "21st Century Schizoid Man" and it's just a piece of art to me. I mean, I actually stole...not stole...yeah, I say stole (laughs)...a beat for the song "Ziggy Stardust." The drummer in King Crimson at that time was Mike Giles. And he played drum fills that didn't start at usual places in a song and they finished at odd places. But they always fit. That was something that really appealed to me as a drummer. The feel that he gave when he did that.
When we started working on the "Ziggy Stardust" album...I always had this library in my head of drum tracks and drummers and pieces of beats and drum fills. So when I was figuring out what to play on a track, I'd go for a walk mentally around my library and pull out albums and go, 'Ooh, a bit of that might work joined with a bit of that. And that works with this, and so forth.' I'd just change it a little. And I actually took that kind of a thing on the King Crimson album for the song, "Ziggy Stardust." And it worked. It sounds unusual. That's where I got inspired. The same thing with that Hendrix album. There's a beat I just loved. I just loved the feel of it. So when we did "Star" on "Ziggy"...I'm using that beat. It's obviously played like 10 times faster, so nobody will know where it came from. It was an unusual way of doing a straight rock track, and it really fit. And the first Led Zeppelin album was a real turning point in rock music, too. The connection between blues and rock. And it had a well-crafted bunch of musicians doing fantastic music.
"Ziggy Stardust" - David Bowie / "The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars" (1972)
Casey Chambers: This has been gold. Thank you for sharing a few stories and taking the time to speak with me today. And thanks for all your music. It's been an honor and a lot of fun.
Woody Woodmansey: My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you, Casey. Take care.
"Spider From Mars: My Life With Bowie" by Woody Woodmansey
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