Wednesday, November 1, 2017

Interview -- Stephen Linsley (The Jim Carroll Band)

"There's no one
left that I even
want to imitate."
~ The Jim Carroll Band ~



The Jim Carroll Band made music that was both compelling and relentless and wrapped the noise around poetry that felt so real you could taste it.

And Stephen Linsley, the bassist and youngest member of the JCB by plenty...was poppin' the string for the entire ride.  That would be a 7 year, 3 album ride for those taking math.  But it was their eye-opening 1980 debut..."Catholic Boy"...that expanded the boundaries of truth.

"Catholic Boy" reminded us...that street life is extremely messy, time moves quicker than crosswalks, and choices are weighed and made in but moments.  And yet between the seedier shadows and darker reflections...glimmers of chance and strength share a soft breath with beauty.
Go get you some.

Stephen Linsley Interview -- Oct. 2017
Stephen Linsley

Casey Chambers:  I'd like to begin with the lost gem..."City Drops Into The Night" from The Jim Carroll Band's debut album..."Catholic Boy."  You co-wrote that song, right?

Stephen Linsley:  "City Drops..." was written while Jim (Carroll) was living in San Francisco in this room in an apartment with Terrell Winn's (guitar) girlfriend at the time.  She was a friend of mine from high school.  None of the rest of us actually lived in the city but we were playing in the city a lot. And we used the place as our base.  It was sort of our clubhouse as it were. So one night we were just hanging out enjoying a late evening of typical Jim Carroll Band partying and Jim and I and Brian Linsley (guitar) basically wrote the song.  I don't have a whole lot of specific memory writing it.  I mean, a lot of times we wrote songs in a very organic way.  They kind of happened without a lot of notice.

"City Drops Into The Night" was always an incredible song to play live and one of my personal favorites.  I was 10 years younger than everybody else in the band.  I was 18,19, 20.  And I wouldn't say I was completely impressionable, but I think I was a lot more open to what Jim was saying.  I took his lyrics seriously and that song, in particular.  Things like..."It ain't hip to sink so low unless you're gonna make a resurrection" was a particular lyric I really took to heart and I'm probably still alive because of it.

The Jim Carroll Band
(Stephen Linsley, Terrell Winn, Jim Carroll, Brian Linsley, Wayne Woods)

We were a hard-charging drug band, but I don't want to overstate that.  It was certainly part of it.  Many people often misinterpret that part of it.  Jim obviously had a big background in drugs and wrote from that place, but to again reference that line..."It ain't hip to sink so low unless you're gonna make a resurrection"... don't confuse...don't get lost in the drugs.  Look at what's going on beyond them.  We would have contact with people on the road who would get really enthusiastic only about the drug part of what we were doing.  But even though Jim was talking about hard drugs, his approach to those drugs was much the way one approaches psychedelics...as more of a transcendent and spiritual path.

That's the long version.  It goes back to what Morrison was talking about and certainly, people like Baudelaire and Rimbaud were talking about.  As you probably know, Jim was heavily influenced by them.  Jim was turning the typewriters over to the monkeys.  Not just to get high and have a good time, but to actually create something.  And when I would be playing, I was not so much listening...as I was experiencing the lyrics.  It was like being in the audience and on stage at the same time.  It had that effect on me.

Casey Chambers:  Bobby Keys played the sax on that song.  How did he get involved in the recording?

Stephen Linsley:  Our manager, Earl McGrath, worked with Rolling Stone Records and was the president of the Stones label at the time.  And Bobby Keys was a big part of The Rolling Stones.  Played all over the Rolling Stones.  He was one of Keith Richards best friends and Keith liked us.  So Bobby came in and it was cool.

"City Drops Into The Night" - The Jim Carroll Band / "Catholic Boy" (1980)


Casey Chambers:  It's a great night driving song. It's perfect.  So the Stones were fans of The Jim Carroll Band, too?

Stephen Linsley:  Oh, yeah.  It was the fact that Keith really dug what we were doing that ultimately ensured we got signed.  When it came time for our record to come out, we switched over to Atco which at that time the Stones were part of.  It was Ahmet Ertegun's label...the guy who started Atlantic Records in the '50s.    Atlantic became such a huge label in the '70s that we forget it started off as a kind of eclectic label that was doing a lot of R&B ...which was rare at the time for white labels to be doing black music.  That really was Ahmet Ertegun's doing.  They've always been more experimental, and I think Earl realized we would probably get promoted better if we were over on the mother company's side...so we swapped over to Atco.

Casey Chambers:  The band's explosive signature song..."People Who Died"...that was a game changer on many levels.

Stephen Linsley:  "People Who Died" was born at one of our rehearsals.  Whenever it was time to rehearse, all of us would show up but often not exactly at the same time. So we'd use that time to just warm up. Sort of start playing with each other at the beginning and a lot of times the easiest thing to play just to warm up is like 1-4-5 Chuck Berry type stuff.  Rock and roll.  Just jam shit basically.

And the band was warming itself up, playing some fast punk rock style 1-4-5 Chuck Berry and Jim sort of jumped in on it which he didn't usually do.  Usually, he would just be doing other stuff and let us get limbered up.  Or one of us would sit down with Jim.  Or a few of us.  Or...sometimes Jim wrote a song and he would come to us and say, 'I have some chords.'  Jim wasn't really a musician per say, but he would hear things in his head.  Like, "Catholic Boy" was something he had fully formed in his head oddly enough.  He said, 'Gimme that guitar.'  And he had that rhythm.  And I'm jumping tracks.

But with "People Who Died," Jim popped in and just started riffing on that thing.  It kind of spontaneously combusted right there.  And we were all like, 'Wow, this is an interesting song!'

Later, we went back and fine-tuned it and that's how that song started.  And this happens a lot with songwriting.  You start with some little kernel of a thought, a melody, a riff or something.  A rhythm.  And then come back to it.  It's like poetry.  Poetry a lot of times you'll spit it out.  And then you'll go back and hone it into something.  Not just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo.  And the song went on to become our infamous hit.

"People Who Died" (early live version 2 years before album)


Casey Chambers:  What did that song do for you guys in terms of media attention?

Stephen Linsley:  Well, I think it was certainly a good hook and the song gave people a lot of stuff to latch onto.  In a lot of ways, "People Who Died" is the most like the "The Basketball Diaries" of any of the songs.

There are certainly other themes I can see showing up, but you can really hear the little stories...of friends lost...parsed from that book in this one.  And it was aggressive and very unique in its way.  I'm sure there must be other songs where people sing about people dying, but...

Casey Chambers:  I've never heard anything quite like it...before or since.  And I can still remember being knocked out hearing that song for the first time.  Like an anthem.

Stephen Linsley:  Yeah, and I was surprised by the number of covers.  I remember a few years ago doing a search on YouTube and was really shocked at how many people have covered it.  I mean, John Cale did a cover.  And there's a live version of Marilyn Manson doing it, which kinda makes sense. (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  Oh, I totally get it.  I'm sure he adds his own special flavor to the song. (laughs)

Stephen Linsley:  Yeah, it's an interesting cover.  Very stylized.  It wasn't somebody covering it literally. It's on YouTube, I think.

Casey Chambers:  I'll check it out. What would be really strange is hearing Olivia Newton-John bringing it to the house. (laughs)  And that song still continues to pop up in movies and tv shows, doesn't it?

Stephen Linsley:  Yeah, I know. And it's always weird when it shows up and I don't know it's there.  It's like being in a strange town and suddenly running into someone you know.  I was watching...this is actually my favorite combination...I was watching "Six Feet Under"   and on the final season DVD, they did this great recap of the entire show set to "People Who Died."  Appropriate that they would choose it. (laughs)  They literally just took video cuts of people dying throughout the series.

Casey Chambers:  Oh, that is cool!  And that show has been on my Watchlist for awhile.  Just haven't pulled the trigger yet.  And Spielberg must have been a fan too, slipping that song surprisingly into "E.T." (1982)

Stephen Linsley:  Oh well,  I mean it's actually a pretty anticlimactic use of it, but at the time it was huge to us.  It was the first time we had had anything like that done.  And of course, "E.T." was this giant...ya know...it was phenomenally huge and it was just really cool to see it used in that film.  That was sort of a fun bragging rights thing...to be able to say, 'Yeah, and ya know that song was in "E.T."  But again, it's a little odd, contextually, where it is in the movie.  They segue "People Who Died" into "Papa Oom Mow Mow" or "Bird is the Word" or whatever that funny '50s song was.  It's like, what radio station are those guys listening to? (laughs)  But it was cool.

"Catholic Boy" - The Jim Carroll Band (1980)

Casey Chambers:  What was some television you did when the album came out?

Stephen Linsley:  Well, we spent Thanksgiving in New York with Earl in 1980.  It was the first time the band went to New York.  And a month after the record came out, we did The Tom Snyder Show in New York City.      That was a late-night talk show from the 70's and '80s.  And I saw that they recently released a DVD of music from that show.  We're unfortunately not on it and I've never seen our performance since.  And we were also the musical guest on "Fridays."  "Fridays" is available.  But I would love to see the footage of our performance on Tom Snyder.

Casey Chambers:  What did you guys play?

Stephen Linsley:  I'm sure we did "People Who Died."  And something else.  I don't remember exactly.  I'm sure we did two songs.  But Tom Snyder was the first time I was aware that we were actually famous.  We taped the show in the afternoon at 30 Rock which is where NBC is.  Rockefeller Center is such a big building in New York.  And when we came down the elevators afterward, there was a mob waiting for us.

That was the first time I had ever been mobbed by a crowd. (laughs)  That was so much fun.  It's like, 'Oh wow!'  I mean, I don't give a shit about being famous now.  I'm 56.  I had the career.  Fame is not healthy.  It's not for any real human being.  But when I was 20, of course,  I wanted to be famous.  Ya want to be a rock star.  This is when you're still climbing up the hill.  We hadn't even done our first real tour yet and our first album, "Catholic Boy" had just come out.  And you have all this energy of...'You just want it to be as fucking big as it can be.'  So, it was pretty cool.  It was probably the only time we ever got mobbed because we were never really a hugely famous band.  But it was fun.  It was really, really fun.

Casey Chambers:  You mentioned the show "Fridays" earlier.

Stephen Linsley:  Yeah, "Fridays" was in the middle of our first tour.  We did three songs and it was shot in L.A.  When we shot Tom Snyder, it really had a lot of mystique.  It was really mysterious.  Being in New York...it just had a lot of...mystery attached to it.  When we did "Fridays," it was really low-key.  I have always wished there had been a director there to direct us a little on TV.  It seemed like a really flat performance to me.  It was not a good representation of what we were like live.  Live, we were really edgy and hard.  And I didn't get that from that performance.  It's a skewed perspective 'cause I'm in the band, but...it just seemed sedate to me.  When you do a show live,  you have the crowd and it quickly gets you up to this pinnacle of energy and that just didn't happen as much with that show.

"It's Too Late" - Jim Carroll Band on "Fridays" (1981)


Casey Chambers:  Do you have any special memories from that show?

Stephen Linsley:  Valeri Bertinelli was hosting the show that week.  And I got to briefly meet Eddie Van Halen there.  Most of us were huge fans of Van Halen and I was a huge fan of their first record.  You can't imagine now what it was like to have no Van Halen.  But the sound of that record...it was just a total musical sea change.

Casey Chambers:  So, Eddie Van Halen was hanging at the "Fridays" show?

Stephen Linsley:  Yeah, because he was married to Valeri Bertinelli.  She was in "Three's Company."  No, what was that fucking show called?  Some weird show in the '70s.

Casey Chambers:  All the shows were weird in the '70s, weren't they? (laughs)

Stephen Linsley:  (laughs) Anyway, they were married at the time and she hosted the show.  I was sitting on the stage doodling with my bass.  I think it was after the soundcheck.  And Eddie Van Halen sort of walks up.  I was like, 'Oh shit!  It's Eddie Van Halen!'  In hindsight, I wish I had talked to him more.  I was kind of shy.  The funny thing is, even though other people saw us as rock stars, or whatever, I never felt that way.  I met lots of famous people.  I remember palling around with David Robinson from The Cars when we would play Boston and I always thought...'Oh, he's a rock star.  I'm just a normal person.'  I mean, that's the thing.  It's all just an illusion.  Nobody's a rock star really.

Casey Chambers:  Are there any possible plans of releasing any outtakes or live stuff from the band anytime soon?

The Jim Carroll Band

Stephen Linsley:  I am currently in the middle of digitizing every cassette of every show we ever did.  Partly why "Catholic Boy" is so good and has so much energy, is that we had been playing in clubs literally every weekend for two years before we recorded it in San Francisco.  I mean, "City Drops..." on record is great.  But live...that song was a monster.  I mean, I would leave my body playing that song.

Casey Chambers:  It'd be great to see some of those songs reach the fans.  We'd love to hear them.

Stephen Linsley: Yeah, some are epic.  When we were playing live, sometimes it would just transcend everything.  It was just that...mystical.

But it sorta stopped happening once we got out on tour playing every night instead of every weekend.  It became more like work.  It depends on the crowd, of course, but now you're in a business.  You have to push yourself harder to hit that energy and because you're pushing yourself, it's intentional and loses some of the magic.  But when it's right...

One of the most amazing lyrics Jim ever wrote and one of the most important songs we ever did was "Dead Heat." We never recorded it, which is a real shame, but we did this show once and played that song and we just hit this magic critical mass that was...on this other level.  We all remembered it.  You could ask any of the band members, 'Hey, remember that night we played "Dead Heat" at the Rio?'  And everyone would be like, 'Oh yeah! That was...'  Everybody knew.  "Dead Heat" was a song that lived in the band's collective memory. Something special happened.

And that's the way it is.  Sometimes it's punching a clock and going to work and sometimes it just goes beyond.  And there's no way to really tell why that happens.  I mean, I saw the band Television play a couple of weeks ago.  I'm a big fan of Television and heard they were playing.  And it was a perfect show.  I mean it was perfect on every...fucking...level.  It was mystical.  It was transcendent.  Like all the corny shit Jim Morrison would talk about. (laughs)

I felt so privileged to see it.  I liked it so much, I talked my way into the club and got to see them a second night And of course, the second night...it was totally different.  (laughs)  It was good.  It was interesting to see.  I enjoyed watching it from a technical point of view.  Watching the guitar work.  But like, I never left my mind the whole time.  I was thinking.  Not feeling.  And it was like...'how weird.'  From one night to the next.  In the same club.  Totally different experience.  And that's just it.  It doesn't happen all the time.  But when it does...you remember it.

I'm digressing a bit, but that's the way it was for us.  And for years before we ever dragged out the cassettes and found that song ("Dead Heat") it was just...'oh yeah, remember that night.'  And you really do...you remember it.

Casey Chambers:  I have really enjoyed listening to you share a few of your memories off the fly.  And I hope those live recordings you're working with get released someday.  Thank you so much.

Stephen Linsley:  Well, it's my pleasure, Casey.  I'm really happy that the people who liked us...still like us.  Thanks for being a fan.

"People Who Died" - The Jim Carroll Band / "Catholic Boy" (1980)


Stephen Linsley Photography

Good stuff.

Casey Chambers
Follow Me On FACEBOOK.

Sunday, October 8, 2017

The Horse Head Presents: 7 Tom Petty Lost Gems


TOM PETTY
Arrived --  October 20, 1950  
Took Off - October 2, 2017 
R.I.P.

The Horse Head chose seven lost gems from everybody's brother...Tom Petty.  I tried not to overthink it...and went with the ones that hit me in the feels...as I remember.  (On a different day, different songs.)

"Square One"  -  Tom Petty / "Highway Companion" (2006)

"Square one, my slate is clear
Rest your head on me, my dear
It took a world of trouble, took a world of tears
Took a long time... to get back here."


"Dogs On The Run"  -  Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers / "Southern Accent" (1985)

"...some of us are different.
It's just something in our blood.
There's no need for explanations.
We're just dogs on the run."


"Change Of Heart"  -  Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers / "Long After Dark" (1982)

"You never needed me.
You only wanted me around."


"Swingin'"  --  Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers / "Echo" (1990)

"She went down swingin'
...like Sonny Liston."


"Fooled Again (I Don't Like It)"  - Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers / "self-titled" (1976) 
  
"If two is one I might as well be three.
It's good to see you think so much of me."


"You Tell Me"  -  Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers / "Damn The Torpedos" (1979)  
"...I don't understand this
But that's alright, I can take a little pain."


"Dumbass Song"  -  Tom Petty 
"People think I'm not smart
...but I'm stupid."

Good stuff!

Casey Chambers
Follow Me On FACEBOOK

Thursday, October 5, 2017

Interview -- Brandon Crane (Actor: "It" - "The Wonder Years")


"We were all freaking out wondering if we were going to be deported."
~ Brandon Crane ~

Child actors come and child actors go.
Some we remember, others...not so much.
Still, there are a special few...you just can't forget.

As a successful child actor, Brandon Crane appeared in a variety of tv sitcoms from "Full House" to "Step By Step."  But it was his recurring role as Kevin and Paul's chubby goof...Doug Porter in the coming-of-age tv series "The Wonder Years" that garnered him the most attention.

However, like many other tv viewers,  I first became a fan of Brandon when he landed the role of Ben Hanscom in the original adaptation of Stephen King's..."It.”
Here, he finally got the chance to hold court in a non-comedic role.  Brandon's underrated performance was filled with subtle nuances in both speech and facial expression that appear very much in the moment and wonderfully unforced.  Go back and watch it again.  Roger Ebert once said that some of the best actors are often the last ones to know.  Whaddyagonnado?


BRANDON CRANE INTERVIEW  --  OCT. 2017
Brandon Crane

Casey Chambers:  I understand acting runs a little bit in your family.  How did that bug finally get to you?

Brandon Crane:  My grandfather, Fred Crane, came out from Louisiana to be an actor.  He went with one of his cousins to audition for "Gone With The Wind" (1939) and when the producer, David O. Selznick, heard him speak in his authentic Southern accent, he was asked to read and was almost immediately cast as one of the twins (Stuart Tarleton - Scarlett's beau) in "Gone With The Wind."  So, that was his start.  His aunt was a silent film actress.

On my grandmother's side, her father was a silent movie actor who later became a makeup artist after the advent of talkies.  I was about four years old when my grandfather was having a party.  And there was a lady there who saw me do some impressions and thought I'd do pretty good in the business.  So, they put me right to work.

Casey Chambers:  Cool.  Doing impressions at the age of four! Who were you taking off on?

Brandon Crane:  Oh, I was doing singing impressions of people like Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond.  And some Jerry Lewis, too. (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  Excellent.  Okay, so fast forward to 1990.  You gave a spot-on performance in the original adaptation of Stephen King's..."It."  Certainly, my favorite.  What was the auditioning process for the movie like?

Brandon Crane:  It was pretty intense actually.  Auditions...they always come and go.  And there was a lot of gap between the auditions and the callbacks.  Just enough of a gap for me to feel like I didn't get the part.  And I think on the third callback...it ended up being on a Saturday...there were a bunch of kids there so we could pair up and they could see what the chemistry would be with different kids. When you've got an ensemble, the chemistry is super important because they have to be able to relate to each other.

And I looked around the room and noticed...there weren't any other..."Bens."  There weren't any other fat kids just like me. (laughs)  I asked one of the...I think it was the camera operator casting assistant...'Where are the other Bens?'  And he said, 'I think there's a kid in Houston and I think there's a kid in Vancouver, but we think it's probably going to be you.'  And that's so unorthodox.  They usually keep it close to the hip and won't divulge that sort of information.  They make you stew in it for awhile. (laughs)  But then so much time passed after that...before I got the call...I just figured maybe the kid in Houston or Vancouver really did get it.  I didn't think it was me.  And it was a pretty long process.

Trailer  -  "IT" (1990)


Casey Chambers:  Were you at all familiar with the Stephen King novel when you got the part?

Brandon Crane:  I had read..."It"...courtesy of my neighbor.  He was a couple of years older than I was and kinda my key to pop culture.  So I had read the book about six months before I got the call that they were having auditions.  I was like...'Wow!  How timely.'  And I think that's what helped me get the role.  Having something to draw on.  I was familiar enough with the character that I could bring some education to the role.

Casey Chambers:  Now you had already been appearing in various TV sitcoms, so it must have felt pretty good getting the chance to shine in a totally different genre.

Brandon Crane:  It was, yeah!  It was great to not be doing...baseline humor.  It was great to not be the comedy relief.  I mean, there are some moments where that kind of thing is appreciated.  Especially in "It."  I mean, there are a few moments where levity is necessary, surely.  But I was feeling a little out of sorts...because this was the first time that I wasn't asked to be the butt of a joke or have something...ya know...food related. (laughs)  In fact, there's one scene in "It" where I'm in the barrens and I pull out some candy from my pocket.  And when we were rehearsing the scene, I asked the director, Tommy Lee Wallace, if this was even necessary.  He assured me that it was and it made sense...so I went with it. But I was so eager to detach myself from being the butt of a joke.

Casey Chambers:  John Ritter, who did mostly TV comedy as well, played your older self in the film. Did you have the opportunity to meet and discuss the character with him?

"Ben Hanscom in Derry" - "IT" (1990)


Brandon Crane:  I did.  I did.  And that was a great acting lesson, too.  I mean, he was a real professional and very good at what he did.  He was a very committed actor.  He wasn't all about the "Three's Company" pratfalls and all that, although that takes a certain skill as well.

I remember being fitted for clothes when they were shooting that scene where the adults are out front of Beverly's house...when Beverly returns home to see what's going on.  And the director, Tommy Lee Wallace, introduced me to John Ritter and said, 'Hey, why don't you two guys get together and see if there's something you can come up with to bring you together.  Find some mannerisms.'  And we ended up deciding on the fingernail biting as one thing we'd do.  And some speech patterns, too.  That was really important because...John Ritter and I...compared to all the other pairs...we looked the least alike. (laughs)  Everybody else looked like they could be taken right out of their school pictures as kids.  So, we really had to find something that brought us together and I think we did.  It was a great experience.

There were times when we were doing two different units...where they're shooting something and we're shooting something...and we're sort of inhabiting the same area.  And he'd make a point to come by and say hi and see what we were doing.  'What are you doing with your GameBoy?  What is this?  What is Tetris?  Interesting.  Can I play?' (laughs)  I mean, he was really cool and I admired him.  He was in a play in North Hollywood a couple of years before he passed and it was really nice to reconnect with him again backstage so many years later.

Casey Chambers:  Yeah, I always liked him, too.  And I was shocked when he passed away so young.

Brandon Crane:  Yeah, I was too.  And I think it was not long after Jonathan Brandis had passed away as well.  I remember being at work and someone around me was making some crude joke.  The person didn't know that I was in a movie with him.  Didn't know I knew John Ritter.  And I was absolutely crushed that day when I learned John had died.  I mean, it just kicked the wind out of my sails.  'Cause he was so talented and so nice.  Just a great human being.


Casey Chambers:  You've had the opportunity to work with a lot of directors.  How did Tommy Lee Wallace take to directing you guys?

Brandon Crane:  Well, I think he had a real understanding of what kids were like...especially for the era that we were depicting.  He had a real vision for us.  I mean, to the point where the haircut that I had was a recreation of a haircut that he had when he was a kid.  So, I think he remembered and was fond of his own childhood in that respect.  He was certainly relatable to us, but I think he tried to put his own spin on childhood.  I'm trying to find the best words to come up with here.  But, I think he did understand kids.

I worked with a guy on an episode of "The Wonder Years" who didn't like kids.  I mean it was clear that this guy did not like kids.  He would compare working with us to a recent session with “professionals” like Albert Finney, implying that we weren’t “professional.”  When it was time to sign out for the day, we all signed out “Albert Finney” in protest.  We were just kids and he was working us like crazy.  But Tommy Lee Wallace was very friendly with us and very patient with us as well.  I don't think I remember a more patient director.  Especially with kids of our age.

Casey Chambers:  The old Albert Finney burn.  I'm gonna file that away for a future burn myself! (laughs)  Did the cast have fun hanging out together?

Richie (Seth Green), Ben (Brandon Crane), Eddie (Adam Faraizl), Bev (Emily Perkins), Stan (Ben Heller), Bill (Jonathan Brandis)

Brandon Crane:  We did.  Yeah, we did.  We all went to a screening of "Dick Tracy." (1990)  That movie had just come out with Warren Beatty and Madonna.  Jonathan Brandis and I would go across the street from the hotel to a pizza shop with a little arcade.  We spent time there.  We'd come up with Mom jokes.  I certainly remember that.  It was a great experience.  We were bonding.  Everybody was great.  They kept us apart from Jarred Blancard (Henry Bowers) and the other bullies to maintain a kind of distance which was good.  But we had lots of adventures.

I remember being with Seth Green and a couple of the other guys dropping water balloons off of our balcony at the hotel.  There was a convertible parked right underneath and the guy saw us dropping the water balloons into the backseat of his convertible.  And we were visited by the Mounties.  We were all freaking out wondering if we were going to be deported.  Of course, we're not going to be deported. (laughs)  But they gave us a warning.  And it was all good.  It was my first foray into troublemaking I guess.

Casey Chambers:  "They were Pennywise balloons, officers." (laughs)  And you mentioned the Mounties.  Did you know the filming was going to take place in Canada?

Brandon Crane:  I did.  I did.  They were pretty clear about that from the beginning.  I'd never been and I remember going up there...I'd say it was within a week of getting the notice.  And it was great.  There was so much publicity about the shooting because Vancouver had really just broken out into being the Northern Hollywood campus.  There was so much production going on.  "21 Jump Street."   I mean, you name it.  They were all starting to film in Vancouver.  And Vancouver was proud of that.  So, there was a lot of press.  And a lot of people recognized us as we were walking around town.  They were all very curious about what it was we were doing.  It was a great experience.  Great city.  Great country.

Casey Chambers:  You also hit the lottery earning a spot on the iconic coming-of-age series..."The Wonder Years"...and had a nice recurring role as "Doug Porter."

Brandon Crane:  Yeah, it was great.  It was a comedic role.  I didn't have the same responsibility that I had when I was doing "It."  But it was one of the shows I really, really wanted to be on.

"Coda" - "The Wonder Years" (1989)


"The Wonder Years" thing started interestingly.  When I first came on, I think my character's name was Doug Baker.  And that was in the episode, "Coda."  It was a scene where I'm just playing football in the street with Kevin and Paul.  And I thought that was going to be it.  But it was maybe a month or so later, I went back to audition for like...Boy #2 or Student Council Boy #2. (laughs)   That was for the episode, "Walkout" and I thought, 'Well, that's cool.  It could be two different people. Or maybe it's the same person.  Whatever.  That's cool!'  But then the "Odd Man Out" thing happened.  (S:3 E:6 - 1989)

Casey Chambers:  Great episode!  One just never knows when they might become the one on the outside looking in, right?

Brandon Crane:  Right. (laughs)  And they brought me back for that one.  And that was huge!  That changed everything.  And Todd Langen, I think, was responsible for making "Doug Porter" a larger part of the series.  And it was totally fortuitous but it took me three attempts to get on the show before I had a reliable character.  Or some reliable work.  But it was worth it.  Totally worth it.

I always preferred the episodic television that shot to film.  When you're doing something like "Wonder Years" that's shot to film, it's a much more epic undertaking.  You really get the sense of time and place.  I enjoyed that experience much more than the sitcom stuff that I'd done before because sitcom was...well, it's like theater, which is awesome, but it's all very rushed.  When the show premiered, it was a huge deal. It was right after the Super Bowl.  I mean, there was the kiss with Winnie and Kevin.  It was just the perfect rollout. The show was popular right away and I couldn't wait to be on it.

Casey Chambers:  Great show!  Let me change direction and ask you to recommend a good album for us to spin.

"Let's Get Out Of This Country"
Camera Obscura

Brandon Crane:  I really like the stuff that's come out of Glasgow in the last 15 or 20 years.  My favorite band right now is Camera Obscura.  They're in the same vein as Belle and Sebastian.  And it's super thoughtful music. "Let's Get Out Of This Country" (2006) is a great album.  It sounds like some throwback to the '60s.  Like Wall of Sound...but modern.  Totally underrated.  And definitely my band of choice at the moment.

“Lloyd, I’m Ready to be Heartbroken” - Camera Obscura (2006)


Casey Chambers:  Sounds like good stuff.  I'll add a link for readers to check out.  One more question and I apologize for not touching on this earlier, but would you mind telling us a little bit about your experience working with "Pennywise"...Tim Curry?

Brandon Crane:  It was really incredible.  I mean, really incredible.  Someone like Tim Curry is just a master of his craft.  West End.  Broadway. He's a wonderful jack of all trades.  And it was a master class in acting just being there with him.  No disrespect to anyone else I've ever worked with, but Tim Curry has this...commitment and just this amazing ability to inhabit every single character.  I mean, there aren't many people with such a diverse breadth of work as that guy.

And just being on set with him when we were doing the finale...the end game...was kind of terrifying.  When the cameras weren't rolling, he was very easy to get along with.  'Yeah, okay.  I can do this.  And I can try that. And okay, let's run it.'  But when Tommy Lee Wallace would say, 'Okay do the line.'...instantly, he's Pennywise.  The amount of energy, it was frightening.  I mean, we weren't really scared.  Obviously, there were people standing around us while we're doing this confrontation.  But if you kind of put them in your periphery when he was doing his thing...it was terrifying.

I learned a lot from him.  I learned how to be present.  I learned so much that summer.  And a lot of it was from working with the other kids, too.  But most of it...the brief encounters I had with Tim Curry...I came back to "The Wonder Years" after that summer, a much better actor. (laughs)  It was a great experience.

Casey Chambers:  Good stuff!  Brandon, thank you for taking the time to share a few stories. I really enjoyed talking with you this morning.

Brandon Crane:  Likewise.  My pleasure.

Brandon Crane Official Website

Good stuff.

Casey Chambers

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Tuesday, August 22, 2017

Interview -- Sam Bobrick (Playwright, Television Writer, Songwriter)

"Wherever I could, I would do the shows."
~ Sam Bobrick ~

As a successful playwright, Sam Bobrick has written over 40 plays that have been performed on stages all over the world.  That's his first love. And at 85, Sam is still romancing the jones.

But I was first introduced to Sam Bobrick via his eclectic television work.  Shows like "The Andy Griffith Show" and "Get Smart." "Saved By The Bell" and "The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour," just to name a few.  And any number of variety shows that were so prevalent in the 60s and 70s.  To add a bit of sprinkles to the cupcake, "The Big E" recorded one of his songs after his return from Germany.  And for the final kicker...Sam even held hands for a little while with Mad Magazine.

Sam Bobrick might not be a household name...but he's been in your house!

SAM BOBRICK INTERVIEW  --  AUGUST 2017
Sam Bobrick

Casey Chambers:  Of all the tv shows you've written for, and there were many, the classic mainstay around our house is..."The Andy Griffith Show."  How did you begin writing for that series?

Sam Bobrick:  I was originally a writer in New York and I was struggling.  I wanted to write songs, but the music business didn't turn out the way I wanted.  I had the Elvis Presley song and a couple of other songs.  And I was picking up money writing for game shows.  I wrote for "Captain Kangaroo" for awhile...but I just couldn't make a living.

So, I had a very good friend who was an agent at the William Morris office and he brought me to Los Angeles.  I was teamed up with a guy by the name of Billy Idelson who had a commitment with "The Andy Griffith Show."  He needed a partner to write with him...so I did.  And we were very successful.  The very first show we wrote was the one where Barney plays a mannequin.  A dummy.  ("The Shoplifters" S:4-E21, 1964)  And fortunately, it won the Writers Guild Award...so we felt like we were on our way after that.

Casey Chambers:  Oh man, that one's hilarious!  "Little old ladies ought never to clank."  And you hit a home run on your first episode.  How about that?

Sam Bobrick:  Yeah, that was kind of lucky, eh?

"The Andy Griffith Show" (1964)


Casey Chambers:  What does winning an award like that do for a television writer?

Sam Bobrick:  Well, at that time it was a much smaller business.  There were only three networks.  So basically, almost everybody in the comedy business knew everybody.  And everybody in the drama business knew everybody.

Once they hear of you, you just start getting assignments. People would call you.  They didn't have very many staff jobs in those days.  Not on the half hours.  What we did with "Andy Griffith..." was...we would go into Aaron Ruben's office where there'd be maybe three teams of writers and come up with about 12 stories.  Each team would take four and you'd write them.  That's kind of how we did it.  We would pitch shows and do the ones we got assigned to do.

Casey Chambers:  Now, Aaron Ruben...he was the show's producer, right?

Sam Bobrick:  Yeah.  One of the best guys in the world.  He was just a terrific guy.  I was very lucky to work for him.  Aaron was a writer originally.  And it was at Danny Thomas and Shel Leonard.  They would get writers and turn them into producers.  They were one of the first people to do that.  They got Aaron to write the original "Andy Griffith Show" and then they got him to produce it.

He understood writers.  You'd go and pitch a show and he'd get in there with you and try to work out the story.  And the nice thing about working with Aaron was he knew what he wanted.  So when you finished a story and gave it to him, it was 90% there.  And all you did was maybe a little rewrite.  I would say 90% of what we wrote went on the air.

I liked writing the show when Andy and Don (Knotts) worked together.  Everybody on that show was just the way they were on screen and off screen.  I became very good friends with Don Knotts.  In fact, I had lunch with one of Don's wives.  He was married three times.  She had remarried.  Sweet, sweet lady.  Don was just the sweetest guy.  And when he died, at his funeral...the two ex-wives showed up too.  Because he was just a nice guy.

They were all nice on that show.  But we didn't get to see too many of them because the writers hardly went down on the set.  I'd write at home.  I've been fortunate because most of my life, I've been writing at home.  Except when I'd have to produce a show or be on a staff.  Then I'd have to go down to the office or to the lot.

But after Aaron and Don left the show, I just didn't enjoy writing it as much.  So, I went looking for other things.  When Aaron went to produce "Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C."...I wrote over there.  But I did a bunch of different half hour shows.

Nowadays, they got so many people on the staff that by the time a writer hands in a script, it is so rewritten that there is very little left.  That's the process now.

Casey Chambers:  You were also a writer for the "Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour."

Sam Bobrick:  I did a lot of variety shows.  When I went on "The Smothers Brothers..." I got teamed up with a guy by the name of  Ron Clark.  We're still very, very good friends.  In fact, he comes over to my house every Tuesday and we sit and compare illnesses. (laughs)

So I started writing variety and I loved variety.  That was the most fun because it was show business.  We'd write sketches.  They'd have an orchestra.  They'd have a studio and an audience.  That was fun.  That was fun writing.  And then there would be specials.  We did so many TV specials.  They had specials for everybody.  But then variety shows kind of dried up.  Now, there's so much stuff on the air.  So much entertainment.  I don't know who's a star anymore.

"59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin' Groovy)" - Simon & Garfunkel / The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour (1967)


Casey Chambers:  There were a lot of musical acts that performed on the Smothers Brothers show.  Were there any in particular that you enjoyed?

Sam Bobrick:  Oh, yeah!  Simon & Garfunkel came on.  I loved them.  When Simon & Garfunkel broke up...ah...I mean I just loved them.

Casey Chambers:  Tell me one of your favorite songs.

Sam Bobrick:  Oh gosh.  Of course, "Bridge Over Troubled Water."  "The Boxer."  But I also liked Carole King.  I liked the Motown music.  I guess I like the more dated singers (laughs)...but I do like all the singers that I grew up with.

Casey Chambers:  If you don't mind, I'd like to jump back to "The Andy Griffith Show."  Did you ever write any episodes that were drawn from some of your own childhood memories?

Sam Bobrick:  Oh sure.  I did.  I did. (laughs)  My favorite one was a thing called, "The Case Of The Punch In The Nose." (S5:E25, 1965)  I grew up in a small town.  And I had an uncle who every time he got mad at someone, he'd punch 'em in the nose.  He punched the dog catcher in the nose.  He punched the neighbor in the nose. (laughs)  So we came up with this idea where Barney discovers an unsolved case.  Someone was punched in the nose but nobody got put away for it.  And so he tries to find out who punched who in the nose.  And he winds up getting the whole town punching everybody. It was kind of fun.

Casey Chambers:  Yeah, that one even had Floyd making a fist! (laughs)

Sam Bobrick:  And then I remember Old Blue the dog...remember?  ("Barney's Bloodhound" S5:E6 - 1964)  I had another uncle that got drunk and brought home a...not a Great Dane but a Saint Bernard.  I don't know where he got it.  We had a little cottage on our property.  And I remember he put the Saint Bernard in the cottage.  And my grandfather went inside to get something and he saw this dog and thought it was a bear. (laughs)  So, Barney finds this dog and just loves the dog.  Called him Old Blue.  And that was kind of an idea that sparked from...getting a strange dog. You never know what you're going to get. (laughs)  My uncle finally took him back to where he belonged.


And then I remember when I was young, every kid sent away to sell seeds.  Flower seeds and stuff.  And you were gonna win a bicycle and you were going to make this and that, ya know?  So, we did one about Opie buying salve and not being able to sell it. ("A Deal Is A Deal" S4:E26, 1964)  And now this is true.  If you didn't send the money in...we very seldom sold anything...you would get letters that seemed like they were from lawyers saying they were going to sue us and blah blah blah.  And that was a little scam they had in the '50s or '40s.  So every kid sold seeds, and God...nobody ever sold any seeds. And it's funny that I'm recalling this.  I guess they say your long term memory comes back when you get older.  I'm not sure what I did yesterday. (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  I remember all those episodes.  Good stuff!  You mentioned you were from a small town. Where did you grow up?

Sam Bobrick:  Well, my high school days were spent in Benton Harbor, Michigan.  My grandpa and grandmother had a farm and I would spend most of my young life there.  I originally lived in Chicago.  But my mother and father kept fighting and separating and I kept getting sent to my grandmother.  It was a great town.  It was like the play "Our Town."  Very pleasant, there.

Unfortunately, like with all the small towns, it went south.  When the car business went bad, I guess.  But, Michigan was a great state at one time.  All the roads were nice because they were making cars in Detroit.  All the roads had to be nice.  But then, times change.  They were starting to send all the things that had to be manufactured to other countries.  The work in little towns dried up.

In Benton Harbor...a lot of big name factories around there closed.  And maybe about 15 years after I left, it became kind of run down.  The whole town of Benton Harbor just seemed to collapse.  It was sad.

Casey Chambers:  Where did you go when you left?

Sam Bobrick:  Well, after high school, I went to college for a year.  I didn't like it so I joined the Air Force for various reasons.  When I came out...I finished college.  I don't know how old I was when I went to New York, but I spent five or six years in New York before I came out here.  So, I kind of knew both worlds. The small town and the big town.

Casey Chambers:  I'd like to ask about the song you wrote that was recorded by Elvis back in 1960...."The Girl Of My Best Friend."  What a cool, cool feather.

"The Girl Of My Best Friend" - Elvis / "Elvis Is Back" (1960)


Sam Bobrick:  Sure.  That was when I was writing in New York.  I wrote the song with Beverly Ross.  Beverly had written a bunch of songs for Bill Haley.  She made it when she was very, very young.  And we met at a party.  She said, 'Why don't we write a song together?'  And just like that.  I said, 'Okay.'  It was the first song we wrote...and after that...we never wrote anything good. (laughs)  I still had to make a living and was writing game shows and radio shows at the time.  And that didn't make much money.  But, wherever I could, I would do the shows.

Casey Chambers:  So how did Elvis get ahold of that song?

"Elvis Is Back!" (1960)

Sam Bobrick:  Beverly had a deal with Hill & Range.  That was a publishing house.  She just took the song in there and they liked it.  So, they brought it down to Elvis.  And that's how it got done.  I didn't know Elvis recorded it until it came out.  Beverly called me and said, 'We have a song on the new Elvis album!"  On his "Elvis Is Back!" album, I think it was called.  And I thought to myself, this is it.  I'm going to write songs for the rest of my life.  But I just couldn't make a living.  It was very, very tough.  And I obviously wasn't that good.  I did a couple of those "Mad Magazine" albums but didn't make any money from that.  So, I had to go back to writing, which I'm very glad I did.  But I liked Elvis.  I thought he was great.  When I was in the Air Force, I was young and we'd go out dancing to "Hound Dog" and all those songs.  "Blue Suede Shoes."  I liked Elvis a lot.  I like him even more now.

Casey Chambers:  It's a fantastic song.  I hadn't heard it until I picked up the album.  But it was released as a single in Europe and became a really big hit.

Sam Bobrick:  Yeah, it was like #1 in Europe.  And I don't know why they didn't release it here. I just have no idea why.  It was later covered by Ral Donner (1961) and it made the charts again.

Casey Chambers:  One of the songs you did for the Mad Magazine albums was "It's A Gas." (1963)  The song was perfect for Mad.  Dr. Demento gave it some exposure, for sure.  And it still gets airplay.

"It's A Gas" - Mad / "Fink Along With Mad" (1963)


Sam Bobrick:  Yeah, Howard Stern plays it on his show. "Fink Along With Mad" (1963) was a fun album.  I was writing with Norman Blagman at the time. We didn't record it for Mad.  What happened was, we had an idea to write comedy songs.  Wild parodies.  And we showed them to RCA, but they were afraid to release it.  Then we brought it over to Mad, and they loved it.  But they later sold it to another company that just couldn't handle it and then they kind of faded out.  They're collector's items now, I understand.  We didn't make hardly any money from that.  It sold very, very few.  And I don't know why.  It was a funny album at the time.

"Fink Along With Mad" - Mad (1963)

Casey Chambers:  You've been involved in music, television, and theater and you worked it out.  And that's pretty badass.  Your career reminds me of a line from a film, "You improvise. You adapt. You overcome."  Well done.

Sam Bobrick:  Yeah, I have had a long career, and in fact, I still write plays now.  But everything changes.  On Broadway, you really don't find American comedies.   Most everything now is musicals.  Most of the plays on Broadway come from Europe where people have already seen them.  But I just got notified yesterday that a couple of my plays are in Russia now.  And they're big hits.

But you never know where your plays are going to end up. I've written a number of plays.  About 40 of them.  A couple of dozen were published.  And some of the ones that weren't published still get produced.  And it's kind of like a mom and pop business.  I get produced mostly in community theatres. And when someone goes to see a show produced in a small town, I never know how it turns out.  I never know it's playing there.  But I just love playwriting. It's a purer business.  This is what I wrote. Here it is.

Casey Chambers:  Well, we've only scratched the surface, but I've taken up way too much of your time.  I'd like to thank you very much Mr. Bobrick for all the entertainment you've given us throughout the years.  It's been an honor speaking with you.

Sam Bobrick:  No problem at all, Casey.  It was great. And good luck to you.


Good stuff.

Casey Chambers
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Monday, July 10, 2017

Interview -- Penelope Spheeris (Director)


"My life has just 
been a run of crazy comedians..."
~ Penelope Spheeris ~


When discussing director Penelope Spheeris, I hesitate to suggest she has led a charmed and magical life, only because that might imply that her acclaimed work in film has been more a gift from the good luck fairies and less from the good old fashioned sweat of hard work.  And that would simply be a falsehood.  An untruth.  And while she is indeed charming, her accomplishments are nothing less than well-earned.  Someone once said, 'you make your own luck.'  And that's exactly what Penelope has done.

She burned the late-night candle earning her Masters Degree at UCLA...and then kept her ears open and her eyes peeled for any opportunity she could grab.  She walked on the wire and absolutely dared anyone to tell her she couldn't do it.  She was fearless.

She rattled windows with her amazing documentaries about the music culture.  She smacked us around a bit with films about alienation and desperation.  And she coddled us with light-hearted comedies.  Penelope is a complete badass. (More about that later.)  She sticks her chin out and picks up her feet.  And because of this bravado, while on her lengthy film-making journey, she might've helped remove a few more barriers making it possible for other girls who desire to point the camera to dream, too.  Go get you some.

Penelope Spheeris Interview  --  July 2017
Penelope Spheeris  (Director)

Casey Chambers:  You were making music videos when people didn't even know what music videos were.  How did you get started doing that?

Penelope Spheeris:  I was just graduating from UCLA and a friend of mine at CBS Records, Peter Philbin, called me up and he goes...'How would you like to make a music video?'  And I said, 'What is that?' (laughs)  And he said, 'We figured out that we don't really need to send a band around the world anymore.  We could just shoot a video and show the whole world that way by sending a little piece of film around.'  And this was in the early '70s, so it wasn't even called a video at that point.  We were shooting 16mm film.  But that's how I got started.  I shot my first music video at The Troubadour in Los Angeles and I shot my last music video at Paramount on a soundstage doing "Bohemian Rhapsody" with "Wayne's World."

Casey Chambers:  Do you recall the very first video you shot at The Troubadour?

Penelope Spheeris:  Her name was Chi Coltrane.  She was a beautiful young blond girl with a piano and she sang a song.  She was related somehow to John Coltrane.  And yeah, I don't think anybody ever really...but after that, I worked with CBS on a lot of other acts.  And with Warner Brothers Records.  And Casablanca, etc.

Casey Chambers:  Were there any artists you especially enjoyed shooting videos for?

"Dr. Funkenstein" - Parliament Funkadelic / Promo Film-Music


Penelope Spheeris:  Well, one of the most memorable times was in 1974 when Adam Summers at Warner Brothers Records put me on a plane to New York and I filmed Funkadelic.  I filmed George Clinton coming out of the Mothership doing "Dr. Funkenstein." (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  That'll never go out of style.

Penelope Spheeris: Yeah, it was great.  I shot a lot of what they called...sales presentations.  They had these centers in different areas of the country where the sales reps for Warner Brothers Records were.  So I would shoot a half hour or an hour reel to introduce the new product.  I did Fleetwood Mac and Curtis Mayfield.  The Staple Singers.  I mean, there was so many of these things I did.

Casey Chambers:  In the '70s, you began making short films with Albert Brooks for SNL.  How did you begin collaborating with him?

Penelope Spheeris:  Well, I was at UCLA and there was a sign on the bulletin board.  You know, there was no social media back then so you'd put a sign up on a post.  And it said that these two guys needed a transcriber to transcribe some tapes 'cause they were doing a movie on Jimi Hendrix.  And the movie turned out to be called, "Jimi Hendrix."  Those guys were Gary Weis and John Head.

Gary and John were really good friends with Lorne Michaels.  And I would always be hanging out with Lorne.  Now, this was before "Saturday Night Live."  And I actually heard him say, 'I think I'm gonna go try to start a late night, Saturday night, kind of thing in New York.  Maybe live or something.'  And then, he went and did it.

Lorne asked me to go to New York with him to work on the show.  John and Gary did, but I didn't.  I had a young daughter and I wanted to keep her in school here.  And she was four at the time.  She's 47 now so that was 43 years ago.  It was right before the show started.  Right before "Saturday Night Live" started.  He said, 'When you're out in California if I have anything to do out there, will you help me with it?'  And then one day, he called me and said, 'I found this really funny guy, but he doesn't know how to make movies.  Penelope, can you show him how to make movies?' (laughs)  I had just graduated from UCLA with a Master's in film and I was pretty good technically...so...I taught Albert Brooks how to make movies.
Penelope Spheeris

Casey Chambers:  And you guys went on to make a number of shorts together for SNL.  You walked him through the process.

Penelope Spheeris:  I was officially the producer.   He was officially the writer/director.  And to be honest, back then, women really... it would've been very audacious to say that you want to even dream about being a director, okay?  So, I just thought...well, I'm here to serve so he can do what he needs to do to create his art.  So our relationship was such that...ya know...I put together the crews and I got the equipment.  And he and Harry Shearer and Monica Johnson worked on the shorts for "Saturday Night Live."  He had his writing buddies, and I put all the production together for them.  I technically showed him how to make movies.

Casey Chambers:  Funny can be pretty hard to get right on film, but you seem to have had a pretty good eye for it right outta the gate.

Penelope Spheeris:  Well, Albert is a genius.  And before I worked with Albert, I worked with Richard Pryor.  And then Lorne put me together with Lily Tomlin.  And after that, I got together with Danny Devito.  And it just goes on and on.  I don't know why I ended up with all these comedians.  Mike Myers.  David Spade.  Rob Schneider.  Oh my God, the list goes on and on.  My life has just been a run of crazy comedians, but it's been fun. (laughs)

I didn't set out to be a comedy director.  If I would have had my druthers, I would have been a more serious, dramatic director.  I think I would rather have spent my entire life doing films like, "Suburbia" or "The Boys Next Door" which I did with Charlie Sheen.  More serious movies.  People always ask me why I did so many different kinds of genres.  And my answer is, I just took whatever job I could get.  When they start offering you these huge salaries to do these goofball comedies...and I couldn't get the other ones made...I took the money.  I hate to say it, but what was I gonna do?

Casey Chambers:  You're going to take it, of course.  (laughs)  But whatever genre you dip your toe in, you seem to have a certain knack for capturing the right...something...with everyone in your films.

"Dudes" Trailer (1987)


Penelope Spheeris:  Some actors are just awesome to work with.  I just did an interview with Jon Cryer a couple of days ago for this film we did in 1987 called, "Dudes."  And "Dudes" never really got a release because it was just too weird back then.  It was a punk rock western, ya know?  But now it's getting a release, thank God.  Finally!  30 years later.  But Jon came down, and as I sat there speaking with him, it reminded me that some actors are just indescribably wonderful.  Like Jon Cryer.  Jon Cryer is the most cooperative and giving.  He's just awesome.  I don't really take credit for bringing out their talents.  They either have it or they don't.  There are certain actors that I feel like I could never work with again.  And I can't say who that is because they sue people.  But it's all about the actor.  The actors are the ones that really make the show, I think.

Casey Chambers:  A punk rock western.  I'm there.    Now, I'm sure you've been peppered about this, but it's the 25th anniversary of your most successful film..."Wayne's World." (1992)  You nailed it!  "Excellent!"  How did that project play?

Penelope Spheeris:  When I worked with Lorne on "Saturday Night Live," I was always trying to write and direct some short films like the ones I was producing for Albert.  And Lorne...he would never approve them.  He said, 'Well, just write me something really funny, Penelope, and then, of course, you can do it.'  But I would write and write and write and turn them in and nothing would ever happen.

So, I think when it came time for "Wayne's World," maybe Lorne went, 'Ya know, I didn't give her a chance back then, when I said I would.  So I'm gonna give her a chance right now.'  That's one reason I got the job.  And the other reason was that I had just done "The Decline of Western Civilization Part II" about heavy metal.  And Wayne and Garth thought they were headbangers.  They were under that impression. (laughs)

"The Decline Of Western Civilization" Collection

Casey Chambers:  Yeah, that was right in the vicinity of your wheelhouse.  And they wanted something out quick, right?

Penelope Spheeris:  Well, it took 34 days to make and it was a tight schedule because back in those days, which was 1990, $14 million was very low budget...'let's just give this guy a chance'...kind of money.  But there wasn't enough time.  I mean, there wasn't enough money to have more time and that's why it was made so fast.

Casey Chambers: That must have been a big bucket of pressure and stress.

Penelope Spheeris:  Yeah, and after having worked with Albert for so long I had developed all of these kinds of neurotic hypochondriac kind of weird things, ya know? (laughs)  I don't think I've ever told anybody this before, but I remember working on "Wayne's World" and I was like, 'What's going on here?  I can't swallow right.  I must have cancer.  I must have...' (laughs)  Because Albert is a terrible hypochondriac.  And being around him, you just get so neurotic. (laughs)  The stress was bad, but then it was also so much fun.  So it was cool.

Casey Chambers:  Were you already a fan of the sketches on SNL?

Penelope Spheeris:  Yeah, I thought they were funny.  I was like Paramount though.  'How do we make this into a movie?'  They were real nervous about it.  It's hard to explain.  And I don't think anyone ever can explain how come that movie did what it did and lasted as long as it did.  It was kind of...some kind of cosmic magical moment where the right chemistry, the right people came together, at the right time.  It's weird.  I don't know how it happened.  Nobody knows.

Headbanging in "Wayne's World" (1992)


Casey Chambers:  "Wayne's World" has so many silly, funny moments, but the "Bohemian Rhapsody" scene will no doubt be forever imprinted into our minds.  Whose idea was it to incorporate that song into the film?

Penelope Spheeris:  I'm gonna have to give that one to Mike (Myers) 'cause it was in the script when I arrived.  There was a lot of script changes as we went along, but I have to give credit to Mike 'cause he was the one that wanted that song.  Most of the other music, I chose.  But yeah, "Bohemian..." was his.  He didn't really want to do the headbanging scene though 'cause he felt that it wasn't funny. (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  And the headbanging is probably the most iconic scene from the movie.

Penelope Spheeris:  I know.  It's like, 'Hey Mike, it's not funny while you're doing it, but when people are watching you, it's funny.' (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  Every teenager in America has been in that same car with Wayne and Garth!

Penelope Spheeris:  That's right!  Exactly!  It was just like...total teenage exuberant fun, ya know?

Casey Chambers:  Seeing Rob Lowe venture into the comedy waters was a surprise.  And you really made it work.

Penelope Spheeris:  Yeah, Rob had just come off of some bad publicity.  It was Lorne's idea to work with Rob and to cast him in that role.  And I said, 'Really?  You want to put Rob Lowe in here?  Look at what he's been in the news for, ya know?'  And he goes, 'Oh, it's over, Penelope.  We'll get him cheap.' (laughs)  And Rob was great.

It all comes from being centered up.  It all comes from being grounded and not trying to be funny.  I think the minute you try to be funny, you're not funny.  If you're serious about it in a ridiculous situation, then it's funny.  People tell me they have sets where all the crew is laughing their ass off.  Everybody's having such a great time.  And the movie's not funny.  I'm like, 'Yeah, it doesn't work that way.'  In real life, if you're shooting it, and all the crew's standing around, and nobody's laughing...you're getting some comedy. (laughs)

"Wayne's World" Movie Review  -  Siskel & Ebert


Casey Chambers:  Since I'm throwing names out...Chris Farley made his movie debut in this picture, too.

Penelope Spheeris:  Yeah, Lorne called and said he had found another funny guy, but that he was really shy.  And he thinks he's gonna have a great career ahead of him.  So Chris came out and I just had to take a lot of time with him and be real gentle with him because he was very nervous about doing the part.  It was just a tiny little part. He did make it his own though.  He did add some elements to it that I think was really funny. (laughs)  He was doing all those weird hand movements and everything.

Casey Chambers:  Was he much the same way when you worked with him again on your film, "Black Sheep?" (1996)

Penelope Spheeris:  Yeah, he was.  I just look at Chris like...there are certain people that are just too delicate and sensitive and fragile for this world.  It's the only way I can describe it.  He was a really sweet guy.  My mom used to say things like, 'There's not a bad bone in his body.'  And that's the way I felt about Chris.  He's just a good dude, ya know?

Casey Chambers:  Lovely guy.  Some directors are known to make cameos in their pictures.  Did you ever try doing that?

Penelope Spheeris:  You mean, put myself in my own movie?  You know, I'm so careful with all of the scenes.  I even said the other day to Dan Roebuck...Dan had just directed a film that he was also in himself....I said, 'I don't understand how you guys can do that.'  Because it's two different mindsets, ya know?  I can't be on camera and direct a scene.  There's no way.  So no, I don't do that.  I don't think I do that.  I mean, I might have walked through a scene accidentally once. (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  Well that certainly wouldn't have been as clever as Hitchcock, but it would've been just as amusing. (laughs)  Who or what inspired you to become an artist?

Penelope Spheeris:  I think artists come from different places really.  But one theory I heard lately, which I think is really interesting, is that when people have a really traumatic incident in their life at an early age, it makes them want to excel to greatness.  Okay, so this is a concept I heard which I really...kind of embrace.  If you look, there are a lot of people who...and I'm not saying I've excelled to greatness...I'm just saying that what inspired me to be an artist I think is...my father got murdered when I was seven years old.

And when something like that happens to a child, you're so unprepared for it psychologically.  I think that it just makes you different.  It makes you look at the world differently.  And I think it might even prompt a person to try to achieve greatness.  To say...'Oh, I can do this because that happened.'  And I think that's what happened to me.  You didn't expect that answer now did you, Casey? (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  No, I didn't. Thank you so much for sharing and trusting me to hear it.  You make a good point, too.   We had mentioned "Black Sheep" earlier.  I know it's been 20 years since the shoot, but do you have a favorite scene or two from that movie?  It was hilarious.

Chris Farley in "Black Sheep" (1996)


Penelope Spheeris:  Oh, thank you.  I think I really like the scene where Chris is rolling down the hill.  Because he did most of it himself...and I couldn't talk him out of it.

Casey Chambers:  He was doing his own stunts?

Penelope Spheeris:  A lot of it, yeah.  And let's see, what else?  I also really like the scene where they accidentally get loaded in the car with the nitrous oxide in the back.   Yeah, those scenes are always fun where people are stoned and they didn't mean to be. (laughs)  I don't know why.

Casey Chambers:  Oh yeah, that was great. (laughs) David Spade is on the...'Roo-ads.'

Penelope Spheeris:  'The roo-ads!' (laughs)  Me and my daughter always say that.  'Ya turn left on the roo-ad.'

Casey Chambers:  Funny stuff.  Well, what does Penelope Spheeris have looming in the near future?

Penelope Spheeris:  I'm gonna be going to this music/film festival in Chicago that they're having and they are going to honor me up there.  So that's kind of cool.  This one is called "CIMMfest."  Chicago International Music and Movie Festival."  And they are giving me the "Baadasssss Award." (laughs)

"The Decline Of Western Civilization" Trailer (1981)


Casey Chambers:  Alright!  How deserving!

Penelope Spheeris:  Yeah, they're going to show all of my "Decline..." movies.  They showed "Wayne's World" a couple of weeks ago.  And I heard it was packed.  So, yeah, there you go.

Casey Chambers:  Those "Decline..." documentaries are legend.  Congratulations.  Getting a badass award is...pretty badass.

Penelope Spheeris:  Thank you. (laughs)  I think they just...ya know...when they start doing this stuff it just means, 'Oh, you're gonna die pretty soon, we better give her something quick!' (laughs)

Casey Chambers:  No way. (laughs)  They only do these things because they love you.  Well, this has been great.  Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me this morning.  It's been a real honor.  Party on, Penelope.

Penelope Spheeris:  Oh, you too, Casey.  Thank you.

Good stuff.

Casey Chambers
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